Small misunderstandings can snowball into major confusions. This is as true in economics as in any other field. Very often one finds a well-educated person build up a sophisticated analysis that ultimately rests on a misunderstanding of basic economics. Marx wrote thousands of pages of economic prophecy that rested on the false foundation of the labor theory of value. Modern observers are no less vulnerable.
I was reminded of this when reading a book review by Scott Alexander of Peter Theil’s Zero to One. Peter Theil spends a lot of intellectual effort trying to explain something which, to him, cries out for an explanation, but seems to rest on a fundamental misunderstanding of what economists mean when talking about profit.
According to the Scott Alexander’s review, “the basic economic argument goes like this: In a normal industry (eg restaurant ownership) competition should drive profit margins close to zero.” But this leads to the following mystery: “Neither the promise nor the warning has been borne out: business owners are often comfortable and sometimes rich.” To Theil, this is a contradiction between theory and reality that must be explained. Theil attempts to explain it by suggesting that wealthy businesses have “escaped competition and become at least a little monopoly-like.”
But Theil is attempting to resolve a contradiction that doesn’t exist. Here’s where the misunderstanding lies. Economic theory does not predict that competitive markets will drive profit margins close to zero. What economic theory tells us is that competitive markets will drive the rate of economic profit towards zero. This may sound like two slightly different ways of saying the same thing, but there is a big difference between them.
When most people think of profits, they think of accounting profits – income minus expenses, in the simplest formation. And this isn’t unreasonable – it describes what most people care about in their day-to-day life. Am I bringing in more money than I’m spending? If so, I’m profitable, and if not, I’m taking losses. But economic profits also consider the opportunity cost – that is, it factors in what else you could be doing.
To put it another way, economic profits are the difference between your current choice and the best available alternative. Because of this, your economic profits can be low, zero, or even negative while you are making large accounting profits. If your next available option is just as good as your current situation, then you’re making zero economic profits- even if you have a very favorable cash flow. If your best alternative is only slightly worse than the status quo, you’re making a small economic profit. If there’s a better option for you out there, then you’re sustaining an economic loss, even if your bank account is very impressive.
Consider this example. Suppose I can assign some square footage in a building I own to gambling. Let’s say I put in a bunch of nickel slot machines. Imagine that these machines are very popular – all day, every day, there are people sitting at the slot machines, putting in coins and pulling the handles. The money these machines bring in for me exceeds their expenses by $1 million a year. My accounting profits, therefore, are $1 million a year.
But that doesn’t mean I’m making $1 million a year in economic profits. Instead of putting in nickel slots, I could have used that same square footage to put in blackjack tables. If those blackjack tables could have generated accounting profits of $5 million a year, that means the nickel slots carry an annual opportunity cost of $5 million. So even though I’m making accounting profits of $1 million a year with the slot machines, the opportunity cost of not setting up blackjack tables means I’m taking an economic loss of $4 million a year.
In almost all cases, whenever a non-economist decides they’ve made some new, cutting-edge observation that upends standard economic theory, an observation that economists have somehow overlooked, what’s usually going on is the non-economist is just misunderstanding an elementary point. This is one such case. Theil seems to believe that “the rate of economic profit tending towards zero” implies that in competitive markets, every business should be operating on the brink of bankruptcy. He expends a great deal of intellectual effort trying to explain why things haven’t worked out his way. But all his efforts ultimately rest on a misunderstanding of basic economics, and he’s trying to solve a mystery that doesn’t exist. The rate of economic profit tending towards zero just means that your next available option will tend to be nearly as good as your current option. This can be true whether you’re bankrupt, just barely scraping by, comfortably middle class, or a billionaire.
READER COMMENTS
David Seltzer
Nov 1 2023 at 7:50pm
Kevin, Clearly explained as always. I was managed a small hedge fund focused in risk. I used
Economic profit in the form; 0 = NPV = C(t)/( 1 +IRR)^t – C(0). IRR is the foregone “profit rate” ( implied opportunity cost) of an alternative investment adjusted for risk. If NPV > investment, C(0), make the trade. If NPV < than proposed investment ,C(0), don’t make the trade.
MarkW
Nov 2 2023 at 6:28am
Nice explanation.
Vivian Darkbloom
Nov 2 2023 at 7:19am
You’ve dismissed Thiele with this:
“Economic theory does not predict that competitive markets will drive profit margins close to zero.”
But, what does economic theory actually have to say about competition and “profit margins”? There seems to be some difference of opinion here:
“The interdependence of competition and profit margins is one of the most important features of industrial economics. According to mainstream economics, intense market competition results in smaller profit margins. Long-term profits are contingent on competition and market imperfections; perfect competition presumably reduces profits to zero in the long run (excluding normal profits allocated to managerial compensation).” etc
https://ideas.repec.org/p/hal/journl/halshs-01398076.html
The author seems to have done a comprehensive review of the literature. Is it inconsistent to say that “economic theory” might predict that (perfect) competition reduces profit margins *and* economic profits to almost zero (and, in the latter case, perhaps less than zero?) Perhaps there is not as much consensus in “economic theory” on this point as you indicate?
Jon Murphy
Nov 2 2023 at 7:59am
The author you cite is using profit margins more like Kevin’s meaning rather than Theil’s. He’s referring to price above marginal cost, not the accounting sense Theil is.
Vivian Darkbloom
Nov 2 2023 at 8:07am
Kevin doesn’t define profit margin. And, neither you nor Kevin have pointed to Thiel’s definition, either.
Jon Murphy
Nov 2 2023 at 8:21am
Given Theil’s point, I think it’s fairly obvious he is discussing accounting profit margin.
Vivian Darkbloom
Nov 2 2023 at 8:40am
Two problems here (at least):
Why would one assume that, particularly if he were talking about *economic theory*? Is it because he is simply is one of “most people”. (Que here Arnold Kling).
Second, *even if* he were talking about accounting profit, what does economic theory have to say about *that*?
Corcoran starts out making a big assumption about Thiel’s definition and then goes on a tangent about “economic profit” and opportunity cost.
Vivian Darkbloom
Nov 2 2023 at 9:09am
My response to this (very much on the point and civil) was deleted after it appeared. Dissent not allowed here?
Jon Murphy
Nov 2 2023 at 10:06am
Because the quote in question confuses economic theory and accounting. It’s a very common mistake, one which econ textbooks spill a lot of ink to try and prevent students from making.
That accounting profit would be normal.
I don’t see the assumption. And Kevin’s point is not a tangent; it’s a direct response to a confusion Theil is making.
Speaking of making assumptions, comments can get flagged for many different reasons and can get caught up in moderation. Dissent is very much allowed.
Vivian Darkbloom
Nov 2 2023 at 11:08am
No. He refers to profit margin and economic theory. Full stop.
This evades the question. The question is what does economic theory say about “profit margins” (not the same as “profit”) in the accounting sense given perfect rather than imperfect competition. To say the profit is “normal” says nothing about the question.
Yes. He made a huge assumption that Thiel was using the term in the accounting sense.
The tangent is that he’s not addressing the above issues which are appropriate (and, only fair to Thiel).
I’m aware of that. What I wasn’t aware of is that you are running this site or are its spokesperson! If you have that role, can you explain to me why the comment was deleted?
Again, if Corcoran wants to challenge Thiel, it seems to me the appropriate course of action is:
a. Establish that he *was* using “profit margin” in the accounting sense and not simply assume it; and then
b. Having done that, establish per prevailing economic theory that “profit margin” in the accounting sense will not result in diminishing profit margins (approaching zero) and, for bonus points, why.
The rest is tangential.
Jon Murphy
Nov 2 2023 at 11:25am
Yes, but as Kevin points out, he gets economic theory wrong. His story only makes sense if he is actually referring to accounting profit.
Vivian Darkbloom
Nov 2 2023 at 11:32am
Sorry Jon, but this is just evasive.
Jon Murphy
Nov 2 2023 at 5:14pm
I’m not trying to be evasive. I guess I just don’t see your point. Theil’s comment clearly invokes accounting profit, but he tries to tie it to economic profit, not realizing that the two are similar but distinct concepts.
But, even if one wants to ignore the obvious and say that he deliberately is avoiding discussing accounting profit, then his comment is incoherent because his criticism does not apply to economic profit at all.
He’s either confusing economic and accounting profit or he doesn’t understand what economic profit is.
Either way, Theil’s incorrect. Take your pick of why.
Dylan
Nov 3 2023 at 8:26am
Jon, can you state where Thiel says this, or are you going off of the Scott Alexander post? Because, I just pulled out my copy of Zero to One where he talks about restaurants and I can’t find anything that matches what Scott is talking about. He only mentions profit margins in an accounting sense to talk about things like the wages you can afford to pay (pages 28 – 32 in my copy are most relevant to the restaurant discussion). This is in a different context from where he talks about economic profit, where he says that perfect competition drives economic profit to zero. It’s clear that he understands this is different from accounting profit. There is no place where he expresses puzzlement at the idea that some restaurant owners make a lot of money. His point is just that if you’re in a competitive market, life is harder. Your customers have lots of alternatives.
Jon Murphy
Nov 3 2023 at 8:55am
The quote above
Jon Murphy
Nov 2 2023 at 8:03am
Good stuff here. Another thing to point out that Theil (surprisingly, of all people) misses is that the market is a dynamic process, not a static situation.
It is true that, all else held equal, economic profits (even for monopolies) will tend to diminish over the course of time as new firms enter a market. But entrepreneurs are profit-seekers. If your industry is no longer profitable, you’ll seek out new sources! Companies, for example, may shut and rebrand to differentiate themselves from competitors and earn some new extra-normal profit. Or they may offer new products, etc. They are constantly seeking profit. Given that THeil made his fortune doing exactly this, I am surprised it escpaed his notice.
Theil thinks he discovered some major flaw in theory. What he really discovered was a monopolistically competitive market.
Dylan
Nov 3 2023 at 8:30am
After reading this, I think you haven’t read the book, which is fine. But, if you did, I think you would find that is the opposite of what he is talking about. He would be in total agreement with everything you say here.
Jon Murphy
Nov 3 2023 at 8:54am
No, I haven’t read the book. I’m reacting to his description of economic theory.
Dylan
Nov 3 2023 at 12:43pm
That quote is from Scott, not from the book and doesn’t accurately describe what Thiel said. A few pages earlier he gives the “Econ 101” description of perfect competition driving economic profits to zero.
I’ve not read the entire review, but the discussion here seems to be all based on an inaccurate understanding of what he says.
Knut P. Heen
Nov 2 2023 at 8:15am
Thiel is involved in venture capital. Risk and portfolio return are important considerations in venture capital.
Suppose you invest in 1000 start-ups and 1 succeeds. That is not far from the correct numbers. The success-story has to pay for the 999 failures. If you divide the profits by 1000, I guess Thiel would not be that impressed. Thiel has probably been very lucky and avoided many of the failures so he does not realize that he has to divide the profits by 1000 to get the portfolio return for the whole venture capital sector.
Dylan
Nov 2 2023 at 11:25am
This is off the mark on both counts.
The success rate in venture is not great, but it is way better than 1 in 1000. Generally speaking, the assumption is 1 in 10 companies will return the fund, about 7 will fail outright, and maybe 2 will have exits, but they won’t be spectacular.
Thiel is well aware of this math, just about everyone in VC is well aware of it. It has been a little while since I read Zero to One, but I’m reasonably confident he explicitly calls this out early on in the book.
Thomas L Hutcheson
Nov 2 2023 at 9:07am
I agree. But is it relevant to some policy issue? I’m not saying it is not, but I’d like an example of where and how it is.
Jon Murphy
Nov 2 2023 at 10:06am
Not everything needs to have a policy angle. There is far, far more to life than policy.
Thomas L Hutcheson
Nov 3 2023 at 10:33am
Much as I enjoy economics as a fun hobby, (an it has led me to other interesting things like philosophy and history) my real interest for choosing it was to improve economic policies.
Robert J Hendershott
Nov 2 2023 at 11:49am
While Kevin is clearly correct and makes an important point – in fairness, I think the discussion in Zero to One is best understood if you implicitly assume the kind of zero (or minimal) marginal cost that you see in many leading new tech companies – and Peter Thiel has the most experience with. In that context his “mistake” doesn’t really undercut his point.
vince
Nov 2 2023 at 1:19pm
IMO, more emphasis on normal profit would help clear up the confusion around profit terminology. Normal profit bridges the gap between economic profit and accounting profit. Normal profit also sounds good against the argument that profits are evil.
steve
Nov 2 2023 at 5:23pm
Hmmm. Kind of interesting theory I guess but not especially useful. Thiel’s question is more practical. There are clearly cases where market competition produces lower and lower accounting profits, but cases where it doesnt.
Steve
Jon Murphy
Nov 2 2023 at 5:55pm
The past 300 years or so of the theory being used practically to great success suggests that it is useful. Indeed, economic theory can explain very well why in some cases competition creates profits and some cases it does not.
Jon Murphy
Nov 2 2023 at 6:52pm
I agree that Thiel is confusing economic and accounting profit. But, even if he’s not, he’s not describing anything new. We have a model where “[businesses have] escaped [perfect] competition and become at least a little monopoly-like.” It’s called the monopolistically competitive model and it’s covered in any intro class.
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