Categories:
Economics of Crime
Last night on his show on Fox News Channel, host Tucker Carlson interviewed Colorado Congressman Ken Buck. Buck was critical of high-tech companies, as is Carlson, and was pushing for new antitrust legislation.
But that’s not what this post is about. Twice in a 3.5 minute interview, Buck claimed that high-tech companies cheat and steal. (At the 1:00 point and again at the 2:28 point.) Buck didn’t specify how. A journalist worth his salt would have asked how. But Tucker didn’t.
Here’s my question to commenters. Do any of you know how big tech cheats and steals? Please give details.
READER COMMENTS
Jonathan S
Oct 14 2020 at 1:46pm
I’ll take a stab at it.
1) Rent-seeking (i.e., stealing)
2) Unscrupulously gathering user data
Rebuttal: Almost all other sectors do this, too. It isn’t unique to Big Tech.
Jonathan S
Oct 14 2020 at 1:54pm
Rebuttal to the Rebuttal: That doesn’t make it right.
Rebuttal to the Rebuttal to the Rebuttal: There is no obligation to use Big Tech’s services and devices:
Don’t like Google harvesting your data? Use DuckDuckGo
Don’t like FaceBook spamming you with catered ads? Turn on an ad blocker or communicate with your friends the way the cavemen did.
Don’t like free Prime shipping on Amazon? Find your nearest brick-and-mortar.
Don’t like Apple? Don’t use Apple.
Don’t like Microsoft? Lean Linux.
Mark Z
Oct 14 2020 at 3:42pm
1 seems vague. How specifically does Facebook or Amazon rent-seek? Intellectual property? IP law does allow for rent-seeking, but I think the problem then is more with IP law than with the companies. It’s nor really cheating, it’s that the rules are objectionable.
On 2: I’m not very convinced that it’s so terrible that, say, Facebook gathers and sells user data. The indignation largely seems to be largely rooted in the misunderstanding by users that they have some legal claim to “their” data on what they do while using a platform. I think as a matter of courtesy, maybe Facebook/Instagram/etc. could have a box you can check that agrees to them selling your data. If you don’t check the box, they charge you a monthly fee instead. My guess is 99% of people, including those who are indignant over what happens to their data, would check the box rather than pay the fee.
David Henderson
Oct 14 2020 at 5:39pm
Mark Z,
What a great idea! I would be one of the 99%.
Jeff G.
Oct 14 2020 at 11:32pm
Here’s an even better deal. Under new data privacy laws (e.g., GDPR, CCPA) users can now request that the tech company delete their user data and they can still use their services for free. The fact that so few people even know about this let alone bother to do it tells you something about how important an issue it is to them.
Steve
Oct 14 2020 at 5:42pm
Completely agree. I would love to see what the average Joe would due if they just got a .txt file data dump of all the user data gathered from their profile. It is absolutely useless without the right analytics tools. Sure, you have a right to have that .txt file completely erased once you quit the service, but as long as you are a user, there is nothing 100% unique to you that this file contains. The data is generated as a result of your interaction with the service.
Dylan
Oct 14 2020 at 5:53pm
I’ve got no problem with the fact that Facebook collects data on their users in exchange for using the service. I’m less enamored of the fact that they collect almost as much data on me, even though I’ve never signed up for the service.
Vivian Darkbloom
Oct 15 2020 at 1:21am
More and more frequently I encounter web sites that demand I “sign in” with Facebook or Instagram before gaining access to the site. Since I don’t use either and normally there is no compelling reason to access the site, I decline. However, I wonder what the relationship is between Facebook et al and these sites? Does Facebook pay the owner of the site a fee? Or does the owner of the site get analytics in return? Or is it something else? I would be much more inclined to pay a fee (likely pennies or less in the typical case) than sign a more or less blank check by turning over my data.
Jon Murphy
Oct 15 2020 at 8:41am
That’s an interesting question. I had just assumed it was for convivence (a single log-in versus multiple). But yeah, surely Facebook gets something. It’s probably how they help co-ordinate their ad algorithms.
Vivian Darkbloom
Oct 15 2020 at 10:05am
I don’t think websites are doing this for our convenience. They get access to data from Facebook et al about people who visit their site and Facebook et al get a more complete picture about you:
https://www.socialmediaexaminer.com/how-to-use-facebook-login-on-your-website/
Steve
Oct 14 2020 at 5:23pm
This isn’t really a fair swipe…but as a Coloradan…Ken Buck represents rural farmers. Half the state geographically and 1/7th the population. Beyond the clear evidence on display in the Tucker Carlson interview, he’s way out of his league talking about ‘big tech’.
Dan
Oct 14 2020 at 5:40pm
Big tech doesn’t propagate conservative narratives so thus it must be demonized. Pretty standard authoritarian playbook move.
Aladin
Oct 14 2020 at 8:09pm
I mean, there are many reported instances of some developer comes up with an idea, and uses one of these platforms to express that idea (whether it be a new app or whatever) and the big tech companies that host that app magically come up with the same idea in a few months.
They have all the best developers, so maybe its just a coincidence. But still, there are enough cases where people are suspicious that there is something going on.
Few things, from a consumer welfare standpoint it is hard to argue that is bad. The app originally cost money, typically the Apple or Google or whoever then releases a free version.
Not bad, but it does do harm to innovation, and intellectual property is rarely enforced in this space (and when it is, it is done in such a stupid manner that few people can vouch for).
There is also the concern that the monopolists are no longer adequately constrained by market forces. This means that they can curate content and impose their values on the rest of society. Not “stealing” per se, but if someone tries to create something for a different audience, and people collude to shut you down … thats rather anti-competitive. Its not stealing, but it is some of the impetus behind this legislation.
James
Oct 14 2020 at 11:29pm
Who are the monopolists?
James Hanley
Oct 14 2020 at 11:28pm
A FB friend was on my page this week claiming that Amazon sometimes literally steals third party vendors property. Apparently it can be stored in their warehouses, and they allegedly sometimes kick the vendor out of their marketplace and don’t return their goods. This guy says he’s currently in a lawsuit with Amazon, as a former third party vendor, over something like this.
If true, that’s definitely stealing. But of course I don’t know that the claim is true. And even if it is, it can’t be a large part of Amazon’s business model. (Not that that would excuse it.)
Vivian Darkbloom
Oct 15 2020 at 1:15am
“If true, that’s definitely stealing.”
Not likely and definitely not definitely “stealing”, even if true that Amazon loses the case and must return the property. This sounds to me like Amazon is acting as bailee of those goods and has a contractual dispute with the bailor. To convict a person (or entity) of the crime of stealing, wrongful intent must be shown (theft or “stealing” is a “specific intent” crime). “Wrongful conversion” is not the same as the criminal act of “stealing”. I seriously doubt it is in the interest of Amazon to “steal” third party vendor goods.
David Seltzer
Oct 15 2020 at 3:52pm
Cheat. Dishonest behavior in order to gain an advantage. If a consumer knows or believes their data is being collected and they still use the website, how is that cheating? Where is the monopoly, single seller, that leaves the consumer with no alternative? The revealed preference is to use the site as the benefit to the user exceeds an objection to data collection. In this age of zero informational asymmetry, it seems people are well enough informed. Steal. Take another person’s property without permission or legal right and without intending to return it. Pretty clear to me. Have any of the big tech firms been indicted, charged or found guilty of stealing?
Alan Goldhammer
Oct 15 2020 at 4:40pm
When is the last time anyone has read the terms of agreement for any software product or website? Most everyone just checks the box, ‘accept’ and proceeds. The only social networking account I have ever used is LinkedIn and I actually got a couple of consulting jobs via connections there.
I do sometimes get asked to sign in to a site with my Google account but always refuse. I don’t want any information going out the door other than what I want.
Niko Davor
Oct 16 2020 at 1:37pm
Tech companies acquired most of their wealth and power through developing tech products and services fairly, not through cheating or stealing.
Big Tech is cheating in politics. Let me quote the Merriam-Webster definition of cheating, before they change it:
Consider how Facebook and Twitter chose to strangle circulation on the NY Post story on the Biden Family this week; how Amazon refused to host Shelby Steele’s documentary; how Google and Apple, and the rest have deplatformed or demonetized various figures on the political right. This is absolutely dishonest deceit and trickery and cheating.
As for stealing? Big Tech is helping politicians steal political leverage. To the extent that Big Tech is rewarded with political status and leverage and favors in return, that’s stealing as well.
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