Bryan Caplan has a new post that contests some of the claims I made in my recent post about the regulation of safety. I do agree with Bryan on several points. First, most of the Covid regulations were misguided. Second, today many people are foolishly being far too cautious about Covid. (I’d add that many people are not cautious enough, i.e. unvaccinated adults.) But I also disagree on a number of points:
1. It’s not obvious to me that the widespread Covid caution during 2020 was unwarranted.
2. I think Bryan underestimates the risk posed by Covid and overestimates the hardship of Covid caution.
3. I think Bryan puts too much weight on regulatory differences between jurisdictions, which played only a very modest role in Covid caution.
4. While I oppose some of their draconian restrictions, I’m not convinced that the lifestyle sacrifices in places like Australia were any greater than in America.
Part of this post will address specific claims of Bryan, but another part will address claims I’ve seen made by others in the comment section. So for instance when I talk about “innumeracy”, I’m certainly not talking about Bryan.
Bryan suggests the costs of reaction may be 15 times as high as the cost of the pandemic:
By my math, the total cost of the reaction for the U.S. was roughly fifteen times the total cost of the pandemic itself. (Similar calculations for Canada here). But that’s fifteen times a genuinely enormous cost of 800,000 lives, implying many trillions of dollars of overreaction.
He links to a November 24, 2020 post, which cites this estimate:
A few weeks ago, the NYT reported that “The Coronavirus Has Claimed 2.5 Million Years of Potential Life.”
The earlier post then discusses Caplan’s poll of how much regular life people would trade off for one year of living under Covid restrictions. He estimates that the average person views a year of Covid life as worth about 5/6 years of regular life, and then makes this claim:
So what? Well, we’ve now endured 8 months of COVID life. If that’s worth only 5/6ths as much as normal time, the average American has now lost 4/3rds of a month. Multiplying that by the total American population of 330M, the total loss comes to about 37 million years of life. That’s about 15 times the reported estimate of the direct cost of COVID.
As I’ll explain later, I don’t accept that claim. But even if it were true, the claim would be meaningless. To see why, consider this analogy. Suppose the US could have been 100% shielded from Covid with one small intervention—say a travel ban from China until a vaccine was developed. (Yes, in practice that wouldn’t have done the job, but consider it as a thought experiment.) Also suppose that this China travel ban reduced social welfare in America by $1 billion. Don’t you think most Americans would support it? Remember, I’m assuming this one small intervention would have reduced Covid deaths in America to zero. But Bryan’s cost approach would suggest that it’s a bad idea. Because in that case you’d have a billion dollars in regulatory restrictions weighed against zero Covid costs. Obviously the correct comparison is with the number of people who would have died without Covid restrictions, not with the restrictions.
How could Bryan have made such a basic error? He didn’t. In the November 24, 2020 post he added the following:
Casual readers will be tempted to declare that the cure has been much worse than the disease. The right cost-benefit comparison, however, is not to weigh the cost of prevention against the harm endured. The right cost-benefit comparison is to weigh the cost of prevention against the harm prevented. You have to ask yourself: If normal life had continued unabated since March, how many additional life-years would have been lost? I can believe that the number would have been double what we observed, even though no country on Earth has done so poorly. With effort, I can imagine that the number would have been triple what we observed. There’s a tiny chance it could have been five times worse. But fifteen times? No way.
When he wrote this post, the US death toll was under 275,000. Long time readers know that I have often argued that Covid would have killed 2 million Americans if people took absolutely no precautions to avoid the illness. A year ago, commenters seemed to view my claim as being far fetched, even though that’s the implication of the 0.6 IFR. There are two complications, which push the estimate in opposite directions. Herd immunity might have kicked in at 80% or 90%, somewhat lowering the death toll. But most of the deaths would have occurred quite rapidly, overwhelming hospitals and before best practices for treatment had been fully worked out. So I still think 2 million is a ballpark estimate. We already have over 800,000 dead, and would have had far more if not for the fact that a very high proportion of older people were vaccinated in early 2021
So yes, there is only a “tiny chance” that it could have been 5 times worse, but that’s because it likely would have been 7.5 times worse.
In Bryan’s recent post he cites the “15 times” figure without this qualification from the 2020 post. I’d argue that even if his estimate of Covid costing the equivalent (in utility) of 37 million life years were accurate, the correct ratio would be 2 to 1, or perhaps 5 to 1 if you account for living through 21 months of Covid (although restrictions became less onerous after vaccines, and in my view we should have gone “back to normal” at that time). But I don’t think the poll results he cites have any value at all, for all sorts of reasons:
1. Most people are whining drama queens
2. Most people focus on costs and forget benefits
3. Most people are innumerate
4. Talk is cheap
If someone asked me this question in a bar, I might also have thrown out a figure like 5/6ths. But when I really think about it, that can’t be right. Most of the costs I faced in 2020 were small. I wore a mask when visiting the grocery store. I cut my own hair. I did takeout rather than in-person dining. But I still visited my mom in Arizona. Missing a teeth cleaning was no big deal. Not having to fly to the office in DC was a big benefit in terms of my utility. (How many people take into account avoiding all those annoying commutes to work.) Honestly, there are lots of other things in my life that affect my utility far more than Covid caution–such as health problems.
I get that I was one of the lucky ones, and don’t doubt that the average person was more adversely affected. But I don’t trust their self reported estimates of life equivalents. I’m not saying that Bryan is clearly wrong, just that these estimates are very unreliable.
BTW, if I were a crude utilitarian, I might argue we’d all be better off (in aggregate) if everyone lived a wild, hedonistic, risk-taking lifestyle, which reduced life expectancy by 5% on average. Then bump up the birthrate enough to prevent any decline in the aggregate flow of life years for the total population. What do you think of that idea? Plan to get your son a motorcycle and lifetime cocaine supply for his birthday? That may seem like a ridiculous analogy, but Bryan isn’t discussing the cost and benefits of specific governmental regulations, his thought experiment involves a world of zero private voluntary Covid caution. So I can also do far-fetched thought experiments.
One problem with the motorcycle and cocaine idea is that it ignores the pain a parent suffers when their son dies in an accident. Similarly, if I died of Covid, the loss of utility for my (8 years younger) wife would be at least 10 times greater than the loss of utility for an old curmudgeon like me. (Of course if you take the hedonic set point hypothesis seriously, then almost nothing matters—so ultimately I’m agnostic on all these calculations.)
When I read critics on Covid caution (not Bryan), I see a lot of innumeracy. People talk about a 1% chance of dying as if it’s a small risk. Only a bit over 2% of US soldiers died in the Vietnam War, and an even smaller percentage in Iraq. Yet war is pretty risky. If you had a 1% risk of being bitten by a mosquito, that’s no big deal. A 1% risk of dying is actually pretty large. Even worse, at least some of the people who make this claim will also say things like “That horribly dangerous Boeing 737 Max never should have been allowed to fly!” Really? Why not?
Some argue that the Covid death figures are overstated, even though the alternative excess death data suggests that the official Covid death figures are understated.
Or they talk as if there are only two types of people. “Old people” at high risk of dying and “young people” at extremely low risk. It’s not that simple. Old people are more likely to die, but it’s a continuum. Roughly 200,000 Americans under the age of 65 have died of Covid. That’s a lot! Only about 5000 people were under the age of 30, but high school students are often taught by 60-year old teachers. (That’s not to deny that school closings were greatly excessive, especially after vaccines.) Or they’ll suggest that society could have been neatly partitioned between “young” and “old”, with the young going on with their lives. But if my daughter caught Covid, very likely I would have as well. She was cautious for that reason.
Am I old? I guess at age 66 the answer is yes. But when I think of my 95-year old mom, I don’t feel like I have one foot in the grave. Some talk about the risk for the under 65 group being merely people with pre-existing conditions, as if those people are sickly invalids. But I often see pictures in the media of healthy looking cops who have died of Covid. On closer inspection, some of them looked a bit overweight. And of course obesity is a major a pre-existing condition. I’m rather thin, and play tennis three times a week. So I’m healthy, right? Actually I’ve had crappy lungs my entire life, with several bad cases of pneumonia in my 30s. (If I’d been born before antibiotics, I doubt I would have lived to age 40.) So am I at higher risk? I honestly don’t know. But I really don’t see the point of people saying Covid is only a problem for the old and those with pre-existing conditions. Lots of people have at least one pre-existing condition. Obesity is not exactly rare in America.
And death is not the only risk; people get flu vaccines because getting the flu is unpleasant. NBA player Joel Embid said after recovering from Covid that he’d felt so sick he thought he was going to die. Other NBA players have struggled for many weeks to get back to normal. And these are some of the healthiest people on the planet.
Bryan also compares America to other countries:
I’m now convinced that the U.S. had the least-bad Covid response of any major English-speaking country. The United Kingdom, Canada, Ireland, Australia, and New Zealand all beat us in terms of fatalities/population. But almost no part of the U.S. ever put innocent people under house arrest. For most of Covid, I lived in one of the strictest regions of the U.S., yet there was never a day I couldn’t walk outside with my family, mask-free. I never even had to pretend to shop or exercise.
I don’t necessarily disagree here, but this issue is trickier than it looks at first glance. Based on what I’ve read, there are places such as Western Australia where daily life went on normally all though the pandemic, with the exception of travel. From a utilitarian perspective, it’s not easy to weigh the costs of very strict actions taken against some people, which allow the majority of people to live under much fewer restrictions than in the US. I tend to oppose most of the restrictions imposed by governments, but I also am not a fan of governments that don’t do enough to control the pandemic, but do have enough restrictions to make our lives more frustrating. We don’t have the worst of both worlds, but we have the pretty bad of both worlds, whereas Western Australia is worse in one respect and far better in most others—even from a libertarian perspective.
And finally, as I’ve previously argued I think people tend to grossly overestimate how much of the response reflects government restrictions, and underestimate how much reflects private actions. There’s a reason that Sweden’s economy was hit just as hard as the other Nordic countries.
When I travel to more restrictive states (Washington) and less restrictive states (Arizona), I hardly notice the difference in government policies at all. Rather what I notice is different cultures. Even within California, people in the Bay Area are much more Covid cautious than down here in Orange County. I’ve never paid any attention to mask mandates. Like Matt Yglesias, I just look in the window. If people are wearing masks, I put one on before entering. If not, then I don’t. No big deal. (Wearing a mask is a pain? All I can say is if you think that’s a major problem, I wish I could have your life!!) In the spring of 2020, I recall hearing about some sort of “stay at home order”. But when I went outside, people were strolling along the sidewalk just like normal.
To reiterate, I think we are often overreacting to Covid (especially after vaccines), and I am a libertarian who opposes government restrictions except in a few extreme cases. If a travel ban from China really would have protected us from Covid long enough to help us prepare, I would have reluctantly favored it. In most cases, however, government regulations have made the problem worse. But I don’t buy the argument that Covid caution is some sort of huge problem, not when compared to 400,000 Americans being in prison for violating drug laws, and not even compared to residential zoning restrictions. Most Covid caution in 2020 was justified.
READER COMMENTS
steve
Dec 17 2021 at 2:13pm
Pretty nice summation. It really was a new virus and we did not know how bad it was going to be early on. Not many trusted the early reports from China, for better or worse, but Italy was pretty disturbing. The early harsher mitigation efforts did help keep a lot of hospitals from being overwhelmed and gave us some time to develop some early treatments which did help. Your point about people engaging in their own mitigation efforts even if their were no state imposed restrictions is quite true, you just had to open your eyes to see it. It is also true that in most places if people didnt like wearing masks, for example, people ignored it and the consequences were minimal. You occasionally got asked by a private business owner to put one on. The horror!
There are two areas that I think stand out where mitigation efforts have clearly been excessive. Masking outdoors which we figured out pretty early was not needed, and in schools. Kids should have gone back sooner in many places and masking was not needed most of the time. However, having said that, I really didnt care if individual schools wanted to take stricter approaches. Those schools know their parents better than I do and their level of risk tolerance.
There is a huge dichotomy on Australia so I dont know what to believe. When I read right wing sites and some libertarian sites it sounds like a concentration camp. When I read Australian sites or talk with the Australians at work it sounds like most of Australia for most fo the covid era has had very little in there way of restrictions for the huge majority of the time with some areas having very restrictive approaches for short periods. If the latter it actually sounds OK to me if that is what Australians wanted.
What is bad has been our lack of getting people vaccinated. We did a pretty good job of getting out the vaccines. Will never know but seems likely we could have been mostly mitigation free if people had just gotten vaccinated.
Will let you and Bryan argue costs but would note that it is not over yet.
Steve
Scott Sumner
Dec 17 2021 at 4:30pm
“There is a huge dichotomy on Australia so I dont know what to believe. When I read right wing sites and some libertarian sites it sounds like a concentration camp.”
I’d use the drug war as a analogy. If you are sent to prison for possession of heroin, then America probably feels like a concentration camp. If you are one of the vast majority that doesn’t use heroin, then you probably favor making the product illegal.
The travel bans hurt a few Australians a lot, and many others not at all.
Daniel Hill
Dec 17 2021 at 8:18pm
That’s an understatement. “Massively violated the fundamental human rights of 100,000+ people for nearly two years” would be more accurate. It is a very big thing not to be able to return to your own country, to be told your government and your fellow citizens have decided they have absolutely no obligations to you, that your fate is of no consequence to them.
You also have to understand the madness that is still going on in Australia. Just this week a whole plane load of people were thrown in 14 days hotel quarantine because 1 person on the plane tested positive. They’re stuck in zero COVID hell.
Scott Sumner
Dec 17 2021 at 8:29pm
I agree that it’s a bad policy. But I stand by my “a few”. That’s one out of every 250 Australians, to benefit the other 249. Exactly my point.
Robc
Dec 18 2021 at 8:16pm
There it is, the utilitarian calculation supporting evil.
JFA
Dec 18 2021 at 11:19am
“However, having said that, I really didnt care if individual schools wanted to take stricter approaches. Those schools know their parents better than I do and their level of risk tolerance.”
It’s been my experience that schools basically ignore the parents and students and do what teachers want. Put another way, they maximize what teachers want using what parents will put up with as a constraint, rather than the other way around.
Scott Sumner
Dec 18 2021 at 11:54am
I wonder making the K-12 system competitive with vouchers would reduce that problem.
robc
Dec 18 2021 at 8:18pm
My daughter is in a charter school, my answer is “somewhat”.
G
Dec 17 2021 at 3:18pm
I would have preferred our covid response be much more similar to our laws and culture around traffic. Most people don’t want seem to want a high punitive and heavily policed system around when it comes to things like driving cars, except for the very riskiest offenses. But most people also want a culture where driving responsibly is considered a virtue and reckless driving is looked down upon.
I think if the right had been a bit more willing to try to set a good example (in terms of voluntary covid caution, messaging about the risks) and the left had been a more lenient on some of the rules and more open to compromise on some of the issues around schools, we’d have had a much better response.
DeservingPorcupine
Dec 17 2021 at 3:43pm
As I did on your original post, I’ll point out that you’re way to dismissive of the harms many people endured. Yes, you note that other people had it worse than you, but I feel like you’re treating it as a sort of throwaway point.
Restrictions have dramatically worsened the lives of young children, people with young children, and small business owners. I’m extremely privileged and make a very high income, and still, I have never been more unhappy than I was in 2020, not by a long shot.
(And of course all of this ignores the indirect effects on developing countries.)
Scott Sumner
Dec 17 2021 at 4:20pm
I agree that small businesses suffered a great deal. But as far as me seeming “too dismissive”, I could say the same thing about many on the other side, who occasionally give the impression that they think 800,000 dead is not big deal because they are mostly old or sickly. Is that unfair? Maybe so. But so is the claim that I’m dismissive of the fact that others suffered more than I did.
And when people talk about the awful suffering involved in wearing a mask, all I can do is roll my eyes. Really? That’s some sort of big sacrifice? It makes me skeptical of some of their other claims about harm.
Mark Z
Dec 17 2021 at 8:37pm
Boiling it down to masks is obviously straw manning. Masks aren’t even near the top of the list of covid inconveniences IMO. Closures of bars, restaurants, theaters, restrictions on get togethers of friends, family, travelling, etc. each seem like greater inconvenience. I wouldn’t so readily dismiss objections to months of forced social isolation as people just being crybabies.
Scott Sumner
Dec 18 2021 at 11:55am
Mark, I agree that masks are a trivial problem. But then why so much moaning about masks?
Zeke5123
Dec 18 2021 at 9:17pm
For someone trained in economics, you seemingly ignore reveled preference (ie people rally hate masks so maybe just because you think it is trivial it isn’t trivial for others).
Would add masks are bad for kids (ie they don’t know how to read faces, they are in environment that is telling them be afraid by obscuring faces, etc.).
Scott Sumner
Dec 19 2021 at 11:15am
You are not described revealed preference, you are describing stated preference.
DeservingPorcupine
Dec 19 2021 at 1:54pm
Even masks aren’t trivial.
Using CDC numbers, alcohol-related deaths deprive us of about 1/3 the total life years that covid did in 2020 and 2021. And alcohol deaths have been at this pace for a long while, and will continue to be in the future. Still, I don’t support prohibition.
But I would prefer alcohol prohibition to masks.
Scott Sumner
Dec 19 2021 at 6:28pm
I don’t support either alcohol prohibition or government mask mandates.
Zeke5123
Dec 19 2021 at 9:34pm
It isn’t stated preference. When you see people routinely going into places with signs asking for masks and not wearing masks, then that’s revealed preferences. Words match with actions.
Mark Bahner
Dec 20 2021 at 1:45pm
Not only are most of the 800,000 dead old and sickly, but many of the deaths (approximately one-third, per the NY Times in June 2020) have occurred in nursing homes, where COVID restrictions did nothing to help them.
Then, add to that the fact that the vast majority of deaths in 2021 have been people who have chosen to remain unvaccinated.
Tyler Wells
Dec 18 2021 at 11:10am
I respect Scott and yet I always find it very depressing that he never acknowledges that he, a member of the global elite and someone who could easily work from home, suffered much less from Covid mitigation than the average American and much, much less than the young and the poor, who bore the brunt of the measures. Indeed, Covid mitigation measures are probably the most regressive on the planet, benefitting the elderly and the rich by moving the onus of suppression onto the young and poor.
Yes, Scott continued his life in comfort with the minor annoyance of mask wearing, but how did Covid mitigation affect the poor in the USA, or the young (my son’s middle school experience is very different from my own)? Going further afield, how were the mitigation measures anything but a disaster for the truly poor, especially those in the poorest nations?
Scott Sumner
Dec 18 2021 at 11:59am
I said:
“I get that I was one of the lucky ones, and don’t doubt that the average person was more adversely affected.”
And you responded to my comment with:
“I always find it very depressing that he never acknowledges that he, a member of the global elite and someone who could easily work from home, suffered much less from Covid mitigation than the average American and much, much less than the young and the poor, who bore the brunt of the measures. “
Kevin
Dec 17 2021 at 3:45pm
What about the costs of shutting down the U.S. economy almost completely for roughly 3 months last year? How many years of people’s lives were saved? Was this justified?
Suppose, we saved 500,000 lives valued at maybe $3 million for each life (after all, the typical $10 million figure per life might imply a full life left to live). These are made up numbers, and I think the number of lives saved for that time frame is quite generous; so too is the value of each life saved. Even with these figures, only $1.5 trillion was saved, I believe.
Surely, the cost of shutting down the economy for an entire quarter was more than $1.5 trillion. It’s wise to be cautious, getting vaccinated is smart, and masks are probably worth it (if voluntary), but is there any way shutting down the economy was a good decision?
Scott Sumner
Dec 17 2021 at 4:26pm
“It’s wise to be cautious, getting vaccinated is smart, and masks are probably worth it (if voluntary), but is there any way shutting down the economy was a good decision?”
You are contradicting yourself. The US economy was shutdown mostly because people were cautious (which you say is “wise”). Economic activity dropped just as much in Sweden as in the other Nordic countries, despite the fact that Sweden didn’t have a mandatory shutdown. Sweden’s economy fell sharply because Swedish people were cautious.
I would advocate a third approach. Like Sweden, don’t have mandatory shutdowns. Unlike Sweden, have the government strongly encourage people to wear masks and socially distance (in 2020, not today.) Their failure to do that cost many lives in Sweden.
Kevin
Dec 17 2021 at 5:12pm
That’s fine, I don’t disagree. I was only trying to suggest that shutting down the economy was a mistake. I think it was an extreme measure that went far beyond merely being cautious.
Andrew_FL
Dec 17 2021 at 8:06pm
The great thing about being a Utilitarian is you get to decide what peoples’ utility is for them!
Scott Sumner
Dec 17 2021 at 8:27pm
“The great thing about being a Utilitarian is you get to decide what peoples’ utility is for them!”
Nonutilitarians do roughly the same thing; they just don’t use utility.
For instance, they might “get to decide” what “natural rights” we have, and get to decide what “natural rights” we don’t have.
Andrew_FL
Dec 18 2021 at 2:24am
No we don’t.
Jens
Dec 18 2021 at 2:59am
Exactly. Or they just want to hide their preference for absolute moral relativism.
Jens
Dec 18 2021 at 3:00am
Exactly. Or they just want to hide their preference for absolute moral relativism.
Rob Rawlings
Dec 17 2021 at 9:29pm
When I read Bryan’s post yesterday I could not fault his logic but instinctively disagreed with his conclusions so I thought his assumptions must be wrong but couldn’t pinpoint where.
I think this post does a great job of articulating some of the areas where Bryan may have understated the costs of covid and overstated the costs of mitigation.
David S
Dec 17 2021 at 9:47pm
Thank you for this post Scott, and for having the good grace to acknowledge your good fortune during this pandemic. I’ve had similar good luck because I have a white collar job that can be done from home and I live in an highly vaccinated community.
I haven’t read Bryan’s article, but based on your excerpts he comes across as fairly level-headed—even if he’s wrong. The more disturbing positions are held by the millions of right wing fanatics who constitute what is effectively a death cult. Because of the vaccines, I feel less threatened by their idiocy, but I feel sorry for the damage they’re causing to their communities. It feels like there is no use trying to reason with them, and that they’ll persist in believing in their methods for decades.
Scott Sumner
Dec 18 2021 at 12:04pm
The fact that the anti-vax position in the US has become largely associated with political conservatism is perhaps the most mind-boggling fact of the 21st century. It’s so weird that I don’t think most of us (including me) have fully processed its implications.
It’s also worth noting that the conservative elite does not buy into the anti-vax position. Just a significant part of the rank and file.
Monte
Dec 18 2021 at 3:00pm
There are volumes of medically sound and thoroughly vetted research by leading experts that dispute the efficacy of lockdowns, masking and vaccine mandates in mitigating against the transmission of this disease. Those policies, on balance, have proven to cause more harm than good. The idiocy, then, lies with those bureaucrats (and their loyalists) who would seek to deny us our individual liberties by continuing to embrace these failed policies to the detriment of our population at large.
If , by refusing to subscribe to these absurd policies, I must choose between liberty or death, well…
Scott Sumner
Dec 19 2021 at 11:18am
There’s a big difference between vaccines (what David and I are talking about) and vaccine mandates.
Monte
Dec 19 2021 at 8:27pm
Absolutely! I’m all in on vaccines minus the mandates.
Todd Moodey
Dec 18 2021 at 4:36pm
“The more disturbing positions are held by the millions of right wing fanatics who constitute what is effectively a death cult”
Whatever positions you have in mind, they’re certainly rivalled by large swaths of the Left pretending that natural immunity doesn’t exist or isn’t relevant to policy, wouldn’t you say?
Regards,
Todd Moodey
Thomas Lee Hutcheson
Dec 18 2021 at 8:09am
More fundamentally, Where were BK’s recommendation for what restrictions-tests-messaging-whatever would have been optimal and does his model assume rational response to messaging? Are there “costs” to voluntary “overreactions” to correct information?
Too many Libertarians fail to engage — present their own proposals, not just grouse — with policies aimed at reducing the costs of externalities like spread of a disease or climate change.
Robc
Dec 18 2021 at 8:23pm
BS..doing nothing IS a proposal and engagement.
Thomas Lee Hutcheson
Dec 18 2021 at 10:59pm
It could be but in context, “over”-reaction, implies a reaction, just different in unarticulated ways from the reaction. I call this not engaging.
AaronG
Dec 20 2021 at 11:01am
Thomas,
I’d say at least half of your posts are complaining about someone offering objections to a policy (proposed or already in effect) without offering alternatives. This is an extremely aggravating demonstration of the “Something Must Be Done!” mindset that infects politics and leads so often to sub-optimal or even counter-productive interventions.
And in any case, your argument is just wrong. If the author is demonstrating why X is an ill-advised policy, they are implicitly arguing that Not(X) is better policy than X. Arguing for Not(X) is just as important as identifying and arguing for Y, some other policy intervention meant to address the issue at hand.
Todd Kreider
Dec 18 2021 at 10:18am
“Long time readers know that I have often argued that Covid would have killed 2 million Americans if people took absolutely no precautions to avoid the illness. ”
This is still far-fetched along with your even higher estimates. SAGE forecast 2.2 million American Covid-19 deaths by June 2021 if nothing was done by the government – meaning locking down – so the same as you except you may not have had the June cut-off. (My estimate of American deaths based on what other epidemiologists were guessing for the CFR and number getting Covid by June 2021 was 50,000 to 500,000).
The WHO and SAGE told Sweden in April that unless they had a lockdown, 90,000 Swedes would be dead by June 2020. Sweden didn’t buckle under enormous international pressure to lockdown – the Norwegian health department said it did cave after resisting a lockdown for several days – yet Sweden had 5,000 deaths by then so way off. 15,000 have died with/from Covid in Sweden where 98% of those deaths occurred before 2% of the population was vaccinated and masks not used until late 2020 when that usage rate climbed to just 30%.
The WHO (using) SAGE predicted 500,000 Covid-19 deaths in Japan by June 2021 if nothing was done by the government to lockdown. Japan followed something like the Swedish model and announced a national emergency in early April when cases were already falling without a lockdown. Last winter restaurants and bars were offered money by the government if they closed by 10:00 pm. There were 17,000 deaths by June 2021 and the 500,000 estimate of doing nothing was completely unrealistic.
Despite not being vaccinated last winter, Covid deaths fell sharply in Japan in January just as there were sharp declines in the U.S. , the U.K. and in Europe.
Scott Sumner
Dec 18 2021 at 12:06pm
“This is still far-fetched along with your even higher estimates. SAGE forecast 2.2 million American Covid-19 deaths by June 2021 if nothing was done by the government – meaning locking down”
“This has absolutely no bearing on anything in my post, as I’m sure you must know. My post is not about government policies.
Todd Kreider
Dec 18 2021 at 4:49pm
You are missing the point. The above demonstrates how wildly off your “do nothing” numbers are: 2 million deaths, tiny chance of 5 times worse.
Scott Sumner
Dec 19 2021 at 6:30pm
You still don’t get it. You are talking about no government actions, I was talking about no attempts by the private sector to avoid Covid. (That’s also what Bryan Caplan was talking about.)
Rob Rawlings
Dec 18 2021 at 10:24am
I can imagine that people would in some theoretical way be prepared to give up 2 months from the end of their life in exchange for avoiding a year of lock-down now,.
But that is not the same thing as asking how much utility they would give up now to reduce the costs of a pandemic. I think most people in America would be prepared to give up a significant proportion of their annual utility to save a million lives and prevent many millions more from getting seriously ill both out of altruism and to reduce their own chances of being affected.
Todd Kreider
Dec 18 2021 at 11:27am
” I think most people in America would be prepared to give up a significant proportion of their annual utility to save a million lives and prevent many millions more from getting seriously ill”
When the average Covid-19 death dies at 80 with three comorbidities and when over half would have died within 6 months without Covid-19?
Scott Sumner
Dec 18 2021 at 12:07pm
“and when over half would have died within 6 months without Covid-19?”
And still more misinformation from Todd.
Todd Kreider
Dec 18 2021 at 3:28pm
Ferguson made that statement in a couple of ways, but I just found The Telegraph headline that quotes him: “Two-thirds of Covid Victims may have died this year anyway, government adviser says”.
That is, from April 2020 to December 2020, which is 9 months.
Todd Kreider
Dec 18 2021 at 4:54pm
I guess my response was deleted. Neil Ferguson at SAGE was quoted and repeated in The Telegraph early on in 2020: “Two thirds of Coronavirus victims may have died by the end of this year, according to government official says.””
So two thirds would have likely died anyway within 9 months. How is that misinformation?
Scott Sumner
Dec 19 2021 at 6:32pm
Because it’s obviously wrong. Just because something is in the Telegraph doesn’t make it true. Use your common sense.
Todd Kreider
Dec 20 2021 at 2:55pm
This has nothing to do with “what is in The Telegraph” but something that Britain’s top government epidemiologist told the British parliament in March 2020. Quoting him is not “misinformation.”
Alan Goldhammer
Dec 18 2021 at 1:39pm
I pretty much agree with all of Scott’s points. It’s important to remember how little we knew about SARS-CoV-2 at the outset of the pandemic. It wasn’t until about June of 2020 that hospital treatment was refined (less intubation and more prone positioning coupled with steroid therapy). Proper mask wearing would have contributed to reduced mortality (and I know there are those who read this blog that will take issue with this. My response as always is ‘you need a proper fitting mask’ and also look to the mortality rates in South Korea and Taiwan where mask wearing is universal and they have an ample supply of well fitting ones).
I assume most of the readers of this blog are fairly affluent and have a great deal of flexibility in how they were able to cope. Professor Caplan home schools his children so they were not exposed to the vicissitudes of the public education system. Lots of others could work from home as Scott noted unlike the grocery workers, meat processors, etc who showed up to work in less than optimal environments.
My daughter is a special education teacher in a Title One elementary school (40% of the students come from low income families). The school has been hammered by Covid cases for the past three weeks; kids show up get tested and the sent home. Classes go into quarantine and teachers are at their wits end. Try telling a kid with special needs who cannot read at grade level that he/she is not wearing their mask properly. My daughter has received two notices of potential Covid exposure during this time and has to go out and get a PCR test to make sure she is still virus neutral. Dinners with her get canceled as a result. She and all of her colleagues are frustrated and it’s one of the key reasons why teachers are leaving the profession.
sty.silver
Dec 18 2021 at 2:38pm
I haven’t read Byran’s post, but it seems like it ignores a pretty big factor that no-one mentioned so far: if ~1,7 million additional Americans die, this has a large effect on the quality of life of the remaining Americans! That’s over half a percent of the population. A lot of people will know someone who died, and not all of those will be old. And then there are the psychological effects of just living in a country where that happened. Normal people can’t be modeled as perfectly selfish with no empathy.
Scott Sumner
Dec 19 2021 at 6:33pm
Yes, I made the same point.
steve
Dec 20 2021 at 12:58am
“Normal people can’t be modeled as perfectly selfish with no empathy.”
Bryan is an economist so normal does not apply.
Steve
E. Harding
Dec 18 2021 at 2:58pm
I think the best measurement of how the pandemic affected normal people is to look at the unemployment rate. Australia and New Zealand saw the fastest returns to pre-pandemic unemployment of the Anglosphere countries, while the United Kingdom and New Zealand saw the smallest unemployment rate spikes. The U.S. had the largest unemployment rate spike and (tied with Canada) the slowest return to normal.
Andrew_FL
Dec 18 2021 at 4:52pm
That is confounded by pre-existing labor market policies and unemployment payments
Yaakov Schatz
Dec 19 2021 at 7:57am
When it is all ever, we will be able to estimate how many deaths were saved by the restrictions until the vaccines arrived. That depends on how effective the vacciness will turn out to be and how much delay the restrictions achieved.
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