Scott Alexander has a very long blog post discussing the advantages of a universal basic income program over a guaranteed jobs program. It’s probably the best single defense of the UBI that I have ever read. (I wish Alexander had become an economist.) But in the end, I still prefer low wage subsidies.
Here’s Scott:
A steelman of Sarris’ point might go something like this: it definitely seems true that there is some complicated way in which a family of eight living in a tiny farmhouse in the Kansas prairie in 1870 was happy and felt financially secure even though they probably only earned a few hundred dollars a year by today’s measures. So isn’t it weird that people earning twenty thousand dollars a year still think of material goods as their barrier to happiness?
I think explaining that effectively would require a book-length treatment. But I think the book would end with “even though it’s weird and complicated, poor people today who make $10,000 or $20,000 are often unhappy, in a way that richer people today aren’t, and this involves money in a real sense.”
I am not the person to write this book (though see the post on cost disease); I can only relay what poor people tell me. Sometimes it’s “my rent-controlled apartment is underneath noisy frat boys who keep me awake every night with their parties, but I can never leave because it’s the only apartment I can afford in this town.” Sometimes it’s “I hate my boss but I can’t leave because if I go a month without getting a paycheck I won’t have enough money for rent.” Sometimes it’s “I couldn’t afford good birth control, got pregnant, and now I can’t afford to support the child, what do I do?” Sometimes it’s “Obamacare mandates me to buy health insurance, but I can’t afford it, I guess I am going to have to pay a fee I can’t afford on tax day instead.” Sometimes it’s any of a thousand versions of “my car broke down and I can’t afford to get it fixed but I need to get to work somehow”. Sometimes it’s “I am sick but if I miss a day of work my company will fire me, because when you’re poor enough legally-enshrined workplace protections somehow fail to exist in real life”. And sometimes it’s “I work eighty hours a week driving for Uber because it’s the only way to make ends meet, I hate everything.” A lot of times it involves the same crappy job-centered lifestyle I worry a basic jobs guarantee would perpetuate forever.
I would love to read the book that Scott says could be written on the question of how material wellbeing relates to happiness. It’s a very hard question, and one I am utterly incapable of answering. Looked at one way, it seems obvious that having more material goods makes us better off. From another perspective, it seems equally obvious that it doesn’t make us better off:
So let’s focus on Scott’s final paragraph, which lists two types of problems:
1. The problems we face from having too little money.
2. The problems we face from having jobs that suck.
It seems to me that a UBI program doesn’t really address the problems we face by having too little money, at least the specific problems mentioned above. The UBI payments would necessarily be set around the poverty level. Thus people relying on UBI would still be at the bottom of the income scale, still struggling to afford health insurance, still living in rent controlled apartments (if they can find them!) above noisy neighbors. It’s often said that the best thing about money is that it allows you to avoid having to live amongst poor people. A UBI program doesn’t do that. UBI recipients would still struggle to raise children, and still struggle to find money to fix their cars. That’s not to say they would not be better off, rather I’ll argue there are better ways of achieving the same objectives—more money and more freedom to walk away from jobs that suck.
My preferred system would strive to keep the labor market “hot”. Sort of like right now, where I can’t get anyone to come to my house and do work. We can do this in several ways:
1. Adopt NGDPLT. That doesn’t guarantee a hot labor market, but it’s a way of preventing us from occasionally shooting ourselves in the foot. Recessions are very bad for workers, especially workers trying to escape a lousy job.
2. Combine an elimination of all minimum wage laws with a sizable low wage subsidy. (Also eliminate occupational licensing laws.)
Thus let’s suppose that in my town, eliminating the minimum wage laws would cause the equilibrium wage for entry level jobs to fall to $9/hour. (I think it would he higher, but I’ll use this example.) The government could then chip in enough wage subsidy to boost the equilibrium wage to say $14/hour, which is about $28,000/year for a full time worker.
You might assume that this would require a subsidy of $5/hour. Unfortunately the subsidy would have to be a bit higher, more like $6/hour. That’s because the institution of a wage subsidy program would boost the supply of labor, depressing equilibrium wages to something like $8/hour.
Some might wonder if the equilibrium wage would fall all the way to $4/hour, so that a $5 subsidy would produce no net gain. That’s impossible, because the demand for labor would rise sharply, boosting the equilibrium well above $4/hour.
Because the demand for labor is more elastic than the supply, the effect of a wage subsidy would be mostly too boost after subsidy wages, and only slightly depress before subsidy wages. In my example, I assumed a $6/hour subsidy would boost after subsidy wages by $5/hour (from $9/hour to $14/hour) and depress before subsidy wages from $9/hour to $8/hour.
[Don’t fall into the trap of thinking “Why wouldn’t employers choose to blah, blah, blah . . . .” Employers don’t choose wages; rather wages are set by the market.]
Having a hot labor market would force employers to treat their workers better, just as minimum wage laws and rent controls encourage employers and landlords to treat their employees and tenants like garbage. Do you really want to live in a country where people are positively encouraged to treat the people they interact with like garbage? (Apparently most voters in California do.)
I would like to see a country where workers can switch from a bad employer to a good employer as easily as consumers switch from a crappy grocery store to a good grocery store.
Scott might counter that almost all work sucks:
I worry we’re losing site of the bigger picture, which is that work sucks.
I agree, that’s why they call it work. But does it suck less than non-work? Here we need to focus on both the seen and the unseen. Lots of people think of work in terms of how pleasant the job is. But don’t forget that work also causes output. Without work, there is no output. And no output also sucks.
Of course I’m exaggerating, as UBI proponents don’t contemplate no output, just less output. And the same 1870 farm example that casts doubt on the benefit of poverty programs can also be used to cast doubt on the cost of moderate decreases in aggregate output.
In the end, I’m not ideologically opposed to a UBI program. Maybe such a program will make sense in the future, when robots do most of the work. But at this point in time, I believe a low wage subsidy is better. There’s still plenty of useful work to do.
A wage subsidy is also far more politically feasible, which is why the Dems are pushing an inferior alternative—a government job guarantee. They sense that voters would reject a UBI. After all, lots of countries have government jobs programs and/or low wage subsidies. AFAIK, none have a UBI. Not even countries much more “progressive” and socialistic than America.
PS. I realize that my wage subsidy program would not work perfectly. There is the problem of corruption. There are Zero Marginal Product workers. It probably could not apply to the self-employed. But a UBI would also not work perfectly—some would spend all the money on drugs, and end up homeless. There would also be fraud. In a very diverse country of 325 million people, no single program will work perfectly. The real question is; “Which program is the least bad?”
PPS. Scott has a large number of very persuasive arguments against a jobs guarantee program.
READER COMMENTS
rory
May 19 2018 at 7:01pm
How does it work when you have say two jobs…
a. $8 an hour … but fairly easy… (i.e. cashier).
b. $13 an hour … harder work (i.e. cook)
Since both would be supplemented up to $15, why would anyone take job B.
In fact… wouldn’t employers just put everything at $8 an hour, and when deserved just give a raise up to $15.50 (assuming that $15 was the supplemented target).
I guess the same could be said for people working hard at $16 an hour jobs…. why not just quit and take an easy $8 an hour job and make almost as much.
Jim W
May 19 2018 at 8:26pm
@rory
I had the same question, so I looked around for the answer. Most advocates are advocating a sliding scale. For example: $8/hr might be subsidized $7/hr, and $10/hr might be subsidized $6/hr. This makes effective pay increases smaller than what the employer pays to give them, but not zero.
Mike Sandifer
May 19 2018 at 9:09pm
Why is it either/or? Why not a $10k UBI, coupled with a subsidized minimum hourly wage of $12/hour? Eliminate the minimum wage, as you say, and all other programs to help the poor, except for disability and Social Security. Hence recipients of those programs get what for many is a badly needed $10k raise.
I like the flexibility it would give the poor. Perhaps more parents could afford to spend more time home with kids, getting $10k/year while the other spouse earns the minimum $35k income. I think it could be transformative for depressed urban and rural communities alike.
I agree with you that occupational licenses should be abolished, healthcare should be totally deregulated, with direct subsidies eliminated. Do the same for education, and shift to vouchers. End subsidies for higher education.
Also, legalize all drugs, prostitution, and gambling.
Would we not then have a more libertarian society?
I might also elmininate traditional taxation in favor of the government simply forcing people to buy government bonds, most of which they could immediately sell for cash, but some of which could only be sold and replaced by other investment assets in retirement accounts. That could replace Social Security, but I’m now getting off-topic.
Mike Sandifer
May 19 2018 at 9:10pm
Why is it either/or? Why not a $10k UBI, coupled with a subsidized minimum hourly wage of $12/hour? Eliminate the minimum wage, as you say, and all other programs to help the poor, except for disability and Social Security. Hence recipients of those programs get what for many is a badly needed $10k raise.
I like the flexibility it would give the poor. Perhaps more parents could afford to spend more time home with kids, getting $10k/year while the other spouse earns the minimum $35k income. I think it could be transformative for depressed urban and rural communities alike.
I agree with you that occupational licenses should be abolished, healthcare should be totally deregulated, with direct subsidies eliminated. Do the same for education, and shift to vouchers. End subsidies for higher education.
Also, legalize all drugs, prostitution, and gambling.
Would we not then have a more libertarian society?
I might also elmininate traditional taxation in favor of the government simply forcing people to buy government bonds, most of which they could immediately sell for cash, but some of which could only be sold and replaced by other investment assets in retirement accounts. That could replace Social Security, but I’m now getting off-topic.
Tom Jackson
May 19 2018 at 9:32pm
How does a minimum wage law encourage employers to treat employees like garbage?
artifex
May 19 2018 at 9:51pm
Mike Sandifer, a $10,000 annual guaranteed basic income requires a large increase in deadweight loss from taxes. David Henderson did some arithmetic on that under the assumption of replacing all existing welfare programs for the poor and concluded that “three effects of a $10,000 BIG for all U.S. adults would be (1) a huge increase in the size of the federal government, (2) a huge increase in federal taxes, and (3) a huge increase in the deadweight loss from federal taxes.â€
Thomas Sewell
May 19 2018 at 10:00pm
@Tom Jackson,
The point of a minimum wage is to raise the price of labor above where it would naturally be for a group of people.
When you force employers to overpay for labor, you get a surplus of labor at that price. For example, for a minimum wage of $10/hour, you can hire people who could otherwise sell their labor for $10/hour, $9/hour, $5/hour, etc… Just like anything else, when you raise the price artificially, you will increase the amount supplied (and reduce the amount demanded).
With an oversupply at the minimum wage price level, employers compensate by reducing other forms of compensation to the employee. So benefits, working conditions, etc… all get slashed, because while you can cut those, you can’t cut cash hourly compensation. If you can pay someone at the market rate for their labor, then there is no incentive to try and make up the difference in other ways. You’re already at the market clearing rate for their labor.
In summary, if your skills/experience are worth $10/hour on the labor market, but prefer that in $8/hour cash and $2/hour in other benefits (because you value the benefits more than they cost the employer, say a flexible schedule to help with day care costs, or whatever), as soon as you mandate that $10/hour to be all cash, then you lose the opportunity for any of it to be in non-cash forms. Hence, the employees gets treated as poorly as possible while still keeping them around for the higher cash wage.
hhyt
May 19 2018 at 11:15pm
I notice from the examples in the quote that a lot of problems deal with access to health care or birth control (and I would add housing)–however complicated those things are, if they get better, UBI is no longer much of a priority.
Scott Sumner
May 20 2018 at 1:30am
Everyone, I should have mentioned that the wage subsidies are on a sliding scale. Say $6/hour for people making $8/hour, and $5/hour for someone making $10/hour, and $4/hour for someone making $12/hour, etc.
Bruno Duarte
May 20 2018 at 2:13am
Let me question some assumptions here:
– labour market elasticity: I don’t think it extends beyond benefits. Unless you consider abolishing other benefits, even self-employed would prefer not working if wages dropped too low (after adding the federal top-up);
– the lack of an employment surplus actually depresses wages in the long term. Increasing employment incentives with a bottomless wage and population growth expectations would encourage employers to consistently cut wage costs. Considering most product prices in the US are set elsewhere, I believe this is a recipe for poverty;
– the public finance sustainability of a 40% wage top-up is free-ride spelled backwards. The marginal added value of a worker is far below 140%, particularly when service interface and performance are replaceable by capital (eg Amazon shopfront, Metro entry gates);
– pursuant to this replaceability, profit would become so abundant that R&D investment would effectively be channeled to service corporate investors such that there could be a race to the bottom in lowering overhead (be replacing people with capital). Estimating from scantily available information, each Google employee output 71,407 searches in 2007 whereas in 2016 each employee output 41,636 searches. While searches increased ten-fold, there is an incentive to reward investors who saw their investment return 300% in the same 2007-2016 span.
Iskander
May 20 2018 at 5:20am
How job guarantee gets any support beats me.
Just give them money to help them live while they are searching for a job. This will help (up to some point) people match with more productive jobs/jobs that suit them.
I am highly doubtful that any work done in a guaranteed job will have a positive Npv.
Matthias Goergens
May 20 2018 at 5:31am
Wouldn’t the low wage subsidy program lead to very high effective marginal tax rates for poor people?
(Not sure whether that’s enough of an argument against it..)
Mike Sandifer
May 20 2018 at 8:08am
This job guarantee idea is being driven, at least in part, by the adoption of MMT by some on the left. It is growing in popularity among those in the Bernie Sanders wing.
I think there’s still a real danger of a left-wing, reactionary backlash that will promote lots of bad ideas, like job guarantees, high minimum wages, free college, and fusing fiscal and monetary policy, in addition to a national ISP. Many Democrats could head in the Corbyn direction, being completely unaware that the UK tried much of this in the 70s during their own period of stagflation.
Dan W.
May 20 2018 at 11:02am
Scott,
Great post and Alexander’s post is well worth reading. I think both of you recognize there is no perfect answer as any government remedy will be corrupted and yield negative consequences.
I agree with you more than Alexander on the merit of work. As you say, work is essential to production. Work is also coincident with personal growth. Too much work is unhealthy, but so is too little work.
Concerning the idyllic picture of frontier living here is an excellent essay on the association of work with liberty and self-reliance.
https://www.nationalaffairs.com/publications/detail/lessons-in-liberty-from-laura-ingalls-wilder
“To be sure, the frontier — and, with it, Wilder’s world — disappeared long ago. Few would mourn its passage: It was a world of hardship and danger that most of today’s Americans are, understandably, grateful to have been spared. But though Wilder’s stories may be rooted in a vanished pioneer past, and though they were originally intended for the bygone era of the Great Depression, her message — her lesson in liberty — is no less crucial and true today than it ever was. It is a lesson, above all, about the proper aspirations of a free people — and, as such, is bound to be timeless.
The dependence on government that pervades American life today is, more than anything, a threat to those proper aspirations. It too often leaves us looking to others to meet our needs and wants — from the basic materials required to sustain life to the higher-order pursuits yearned for by the mind and spirit. It subtly persuades us that we cannot fend for ourselves without state-sponsored support — and so saps our willingness to try. When trouble arises, today’s Americans are too infrequently willing to roll up our sleeves; instead, we fold our arms and wait for an official.
Among the effects of such an attitude can be a loss of personal liberty, as the government we permit to act for us constrains our options and pushes us around. This has tended to put us in mind of the tyranny our nation’s founders sought to overthrow, and so has led some Americans to imagine that we are in the same position. But we are not: Our problem is not a foreign oppressor, but rather our own failure to grasp the preconditions for truly living free. It is not that we are denied our liberty, but that we do not want it — that we do not aspire to live as self-reliant citizens.”
Todd Kreider
May 20 2018 at 11:58am
Alexander wrote:
But the famaily of eight did not live in a tiny farmhouse in 1870, nor did a family earn “a few hundred dollars by today’s standards.”
According to economic historian Angus Maddison, the U.S. GDP per capita in 1990 dollars was $2500 in 1870. Convert that to 2017 dollars and “by today’s standards” per capita income was $4,800, which is 5 to 10 times higher than the image Alexander portrays.
Late in the article he wrote:
He didn’t convert to PPP adjusted dollars, which must be done. Russia’s GDP fell 30% but not 50%.
As for UBI, his opening points are correct, but I think we will see that implemented when A.I. and robots enter in full force, which seems likely by 2025. We will be talking about some time of UBI much sooner than many think.
Scott Sumner
May 20 2018 at 12:35pm
Matthias, No, because the more they work, the more subsidy they get from the government.
Mike, Good point.
Todd, Thanks, you are right that he made some mistakes in the data, but it doesn’t change the basic point he is making.
Todd Kreider
May 20 2018 at 1:31pm
It does change his point a little. A family of eight living in a tiny farmhouse would definately not have felt financially secure even by 1870 standards, so he unintentionally greatly romanticized that period by saying they were happy when comparing to someone making $20,000 today.
By the way, the Russian drop in GDP per capita over 7 or 8 years was the similar to the drop during the 1928 to 1933 period in the Great Depression in the U.S. – 37% and 29% respectively. (My previous 30% above was from memory, which was wrong.)
A major difference is that in 2017 dollars, the U.S. GDP per capita fell from $13,000 to $9,000 whereas in Russia the GDP per capita fell from $20,000 to $13,000 before a strong rebound to $24,000 over a ten year period.
Second, unemployment in the U.S. during the depression was far higher than when the Russsian economy went into its sharp decline: just 5% at the worst and then up to 8% to 12% during the growing late 1990s. So rising unemploment caused the growth… or not.
BC
May 20 2018 at 4:19pm
Discussions about welfare programs get really confusing when people conflate two separable questions: (Q1) How much should we spend on welfare, and (Q2) How should any given amount of welfare spending be spent?
What is the difference between a government jobs guarantee and a requirement that welfare recipients work for the government to receive benefits? It seems strange, at first blush, that someone would be aghast at drug testing welfare recipients but would advocate for guaranteed jobs. Working is much more onerous than simply staying off of drugs. Clearly, the reason one would hold these seemingly conflicting views is that they plan a guaranteed jobs program as an *expansion* of welfare: people not otherwise eligible for welfare would be eligible for a guaranteed job and, perhaps, those currently eligible for welfare would not necessarily be required to take a guaranteed job. That’s really an argument for more welfare (Q1), masquerading as an argument for a specific type of welfare (Q2).
Scott Alexander, being a rational and careful thinker, wisely separates the two issues. He considers Q2, comparing UBI to guaranteed jobs. Indeed, in considering a new welfare program, we should always ask which welfare program should be cut to pay for the new program instead of thinking we can pay for it by, say, “taxing the wealthy”. Any new taxes raised from the wealthy could always be used instead to pay for a different welfare program, so every new program comes at the expense of other programs.
So, the question is who should receive the marginal welfare dollar:
(A) low-wage government workers (guaranteed job)
(B) both low-wage private sector and government workers (wage subsidies)
(C) non-workers (disability and unemployment)
(D) college students (“free college”)
(E) everyone, including high-wage workers (UBI)
(F) other special interests (NEH/NEA/PBS, electric car owners, farmers, etc.)
It seems to me that B or B+C should dominate A, unless one is a (traditional) socialist and wants to shift workers from the private sector to government.
Bob Murphy
May 20 2018 at 5:11pm
Scott, maybe I’m misunderstanding how it works, but FYI it’s not obvious to me why the demand for labor goes up with a wage subsidy. Also other people (and I) were confused about the sliding scale stuff. If you write on this again can you spell it our more clearly?
Mike Sandifer
May 20 2018 at 5:28pm
Bob Murphy,
One reason demand for labor would go up is that the minimum wage would be eliminated under Scott’s plan.
JdL
May 21 2018 at 6:58am
Would it be off topic to ask why we should consider either UBI or wage subsidies? Government has, in my view, no right to rob one set of people and bestow that money upon others. It is neither a moral nor, history strongly suggests, a practical way to alleviate poverty. Complete freedom, with the government acting only as an arbiter of force and fraud, works best on every level.
mattb
May 21 2018 at 9:29am
In most discussions of UBI, UBI comes off fairly well as long as actual specifics are never brought up. As soon as you get into the actual details of:
1) How much each person would get every year
2) Who would be included (children, adults only, citizens only)?
3) What existing welfare programs would be replaced by UBI
4) How would we pay for this? At would incomes levels would it phase out so that you are paying more in extra taxes than you get in UBI?
Once any of these items are brought up, I find that support for an actual UBI program drops significantly. When UBI is phrased as “we all get money for free” it sounds great, but to actually implement it, it would usually mean “everyone who makes more than $40,000 a year pays a lot more taxes so that other people get free money and don’t have to work at all”
Robert EV
May 21 2018 at 11:01am
There’s a lot that the US governments could do to encourage employee-owned and managed businesses (without taxing conventional businesses greater than they are now). Having an ownership stake and genuine say in working conditions arguably should add much to aggregate happiness and sense of security.
It is also far more encouraging of republic/democratic inclinations than any of the alternatives mentioned by Scott, Scott, or the number of other people.
And by distributing profits downward, it should encourage business formation (where access to capital is a huge barrier).
So why is the argument just between UBI/Jobs guarantee/lower corporate taxes/wage subsidy?
J Mann
May 21 2018 at 1:43pm
Scott – you write:
and
Serious question: Have you found that it’s not possible to offer a premium to get a contractor to work on your house?
Hazel Meade
May 21 2018 at 1:44pm
I think the main issue is less that people don’t have to work (per se) with a UBI and more that their productive efforts aren’t directed towards real demands anymore. Right now, if you want to get money, you pretty much have to do something that someone else will pay for.
It’s not that work is meaningful in it’s own right – that’s a separate discussion – it’s that it disconnects what people want to do from what other people want them to do. Lots of work sucks, sure, and work isn’t meaninful for it’s own sake, yes, but work often sucks *because* you have to do things that other people want and need and not whatever you feel like at the moment. Emphasis on the things other people want here – actual market demands.
Now a guarenteed jobs program isn’t going to solve that problem. But neigher will a UBI. A UBI will create a pool of idle labor that is “freed” not just from “work” but from the market demand to do “stuff other people want”. (As opposed to stuff that idle labor wished other people wanted.) A guarenteed jobs program would take that pool of labor and make it do “stuff that your political masters think that other people ought to want”.
The perverse effects of B are much worse, but the perverse effect of A still exist, and maybe UBI advocates seem to not notice that fact. A lot of people advocating the UBI seem to think it’s a feature that people aren’t compelled to work in jobs they don’t like – it’s not a feature, it’s a bug. All those things like forcing people to pay more for services because others are “freed” from the need to perform them, those are market distortions that are going to make life worse and lower overall productivity, and ultimately make everyone worse off. After all, even the people living on UBI need services from other people that aren’t always fun.
Scott Sumner
May 21 2018 at 2:25pm
Todd, They lacked refrigerators, lights, telephones, indoor plumbing, cars, TVs, radios, health care, etc. etc.
Today even a poor person can just walk down the street an buy an orange to eat.
You can play around with the numbers all you wish, but they were extremely poor by modern standards.
Bob, The sliding scale means that as your market wage rises, your subsidy gets smaller. But it phases out gradually, so that you still have an incentive to earn more money.
And I meant the quantity demanded of labor rises, as with any subsidy of any good.
JdL: No one is proposing “robbery”.
Michael Sandifer
May 21 2018 at 5:47pm
One could allow UBI recipients to withdraw up to a certain percentage of the net present value of all future UBI payments in the form of a lump sum, based on average life-expectancy. This could be done for those starting businesses or who need to pay for major medical expenses, for example. Perhaps it could also be allowed for those paying for college, who’d rather not work much while in school. I think some people studying theoretical physics, for example, might be better off not having to work a job while in college, if they can help it.
I would limit the UBI and wage subsidy to citizens, but open the borders to all non-criminals to be permanent residents.
Todd Kreider
May 22 2018 at 7:12am
Scott,
I’m not playing with the numbers. The GDP per capita was $5,000 in 1870. Scott Alexander wrote that a family of eight living in a tiny house would feel “happy and financially secure” earning a few hundred dollars a day, despite being in the lower 5% to 10% of the population then. Do you agree that they would feel financially secure?
By the way, I came across this quote a few days ago, which should make those who think much more automation in all areas is many years or a couple of decades away:
“They should stop training radiologists now. It’s just completely obvious within five years that deep learning is going to do better than radiologists. It might take ten years, but we’ve got plenty of radiologists already. I said this at a hospital, and it didn’t go down to well.â€
— deep learning expert Geoff Hinton, 2017
Todd Kreider
May 22 2018 at 7:25am
The above should be “hundreds of dollars a year”, not “a day.”
John Hall
May 22 2018 at 1:16pm
“Everyone, I should have mentioned that the wage subsidies are on a sliding scale. Say $6/hour for people making $8/hour, and $5/hour for someone making $10/hour, and $4/hour for someone making $12/hour, etc.”
I find thinking about this in terms of a formula more effective. This would be the post-transfer wage income:
hrs * (10 + 0.5 * wage1 + 1 * wage2)
where wage1 = wage if wage is less than 20 and 20 otherwise
and wage2 = wage minus 20 if wage is greater than 20 and 0 otherwise
So maybe a verbal explanation would be that this is equivalent to a fixed $10/hr wage subsidy with a 50% marginal tax on wage income below $20/hr.
IronSig
May 22 2018 at 10:10pm
I’m interested what 70’s British equivalent to Jobs Guarantee that Mike Sandifer refers to; I don’t see a name in that direction in acts passed under the Callaghan administration.
Larry
May 28 2018 at 1:47am
Love both Scotts, but Sumner is the one to go with here. UBI would be corrosive to human dignity, especially male dignity. Males’ only path to self-respect is to be self-sufficient and to provide for their families. Women have multiple paths.
Wage subsidies keep men working and give them agency. It’s one thing to get a bit of help, and another to be let off the hook. Many men will (are) switching to video games, weed and porn. See the dude whose parents took him to court to get rid of him.
The way to take another relatively uncontroversial step towards wage subsidies is to eliminate the employer side of the FICA tax. That creates more demand for workers and pushes their wages up a bit.
nobody.really
Jun 13 2018 at 9:10pm
<blockquote>UBI would be corrosive to human dignity, especially male dignity. Males’ only path to self-respect is to be self-sufficient and to provide for their families.</blockquote>
I regard this as a very important matter—indeed, perhaps the most crucial matter mankind will face. Because, as automation reduces the demand for ever more labor, we will confront a world with a) ever more wealth, b) wealth not being distributed by the labor market mechanism, and c) ever more “leisure”/surplusage of labor.
I’m not talking about the future; I’m talking about now. The US has seen a surge in people taking disability. Has the workplace become so much more dangerous? No. People aren’t “disabled” in the sense of being rendered incapable of doing ANY work; they’re disabled in the sense of being unable to find employment in the field in which they were trained. And automation ensures that this will be the fate of ever more workers.
So what do these people do? They take their check, but they feel ashamed. So they withdraw from social interactions. (See “Bowling Alone.”) They feel nostalgia for days when they had a social role. They seek out scapegoats to blame for their frustrations; they vote for Trump. And they commit suicide.
Again, I’m not talking about the future; I’m talking about now. But the problem will only grow in the future.
What to do? One option is to create employment by rendering the economy LESS efficient, thereby requiring more labor to do the same amount of work. This is arguably one consequence of Trump’s economic policies.
But another option is sharing the wealth PLUS creating a new ethos that separates a person’s (especially a man’s) sense of self-worth from the labor market. As the tittle of this discussion illustrates, we have proposals for sharing wealth: UBI, government jobs, wage subsidies, etc. What we lack is a strategy for giving people a sense of self-worth. Arguably the greatest innovation our country needs is not a new cell phone or cold fusion, but a new philosophy to persuade us that we’re all valuable because we’re all made in the image of a loving god—OR WHATEVER. We need to transition away from toxic meritocracy.
Because, in the absence of a new outlook, social isolation and suicide are going to climb through the roof. And no amount of cash can fix it.
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