This is my second of two posts on Matt Zwolinski’s criticism of the moral parity thesis, looking at the second (and to me, more interesting) objection to moral parity. To Zwolinski, the “basic problem” with moral parity is that “we can’t base macro-level conclusions about politics and social organization (solely) on the basis of micro-level examples.”
I’m sympathetic to the idea that the rules of individual, face-to-face interaction might be an incomplete guide for determining the rules of macro-level social institutions. This rhymes with F. A. Hayek‘s criticisms of the concept of “social justice.” In Hayek’s view, advocates of “social justice” go wrong for the same reasons as the issue identified by Zwolinski – they take claims about what would or wouldn’t be just in individual, micro-level cases and attempt to copy-paste that into conclusions about the justness of large-scale emergent social outcomes.
Hayek freely granted that “the manner in which the benefits and burdens are apportioned by the market mechanism would in many instances have to be regarded as unjust if it were the result of a deliberate allocation to particular people.” But, Hayek says, we can’t extrapolate from cases of “deliberate allocation to particular people” carried out at the level of individual agents to claims about just distributions on a society-wide level. Attempting to do so, Hayek argued, falls not into “the category of error but to that of nonsense.”
But even granting that micro-level examples of appropriate behavior can’t fully account for macro-level rules of social organization, this still doesn’t provide much traction against the moral parity thesis. The reason is because, as I see it, Zwolinski is operating with too narrow a definition of the moral parity thesis to begin with.
In Zwolinski’s post, he describes the moral parity thesis as the idea that “that governments have no rights that are not identical to or derivable from the rights of individuals. In other words, if something is wrong for individuals to do, then it’s wrong for governments to do as well.” But I think this misstates what advocates of the moral parity thesis mean. For example, Michael Huemer (certainly as strong an advocate of the moral parity thesis as you’ll ever find) has described his view like this, in his book The Problem of Political Authority:
Political authority is a special moral status, setting the state above all nonstate agents. If we reject this notion, then we should evaluate state coercion in the same manner as we evaluate coercion by other agents. For any coercive act by the state, we should first ask what reason the state has for exercising coercion in this way. We should then consider whether a private individual or organization would be justified in exercising a similar kind and degree of coercion, with similar effects on the victims, for similar reasons.
Note that Huemer’s objection in no way requires believing that micro-level examples of individual behavior be the sole determinant of macro-level conclusions about social organization. And when Huemer speaks of “agents” he doesn’t mean “individuals.” After all, he refers to the state as an “agent” even though the state is clearly not an individual, and he also speaks about private organizations as well. Huemer is not claiming, as Zwolinski puts it, that “if something is wrong for individuals to do, then it’s wrong for governments to do as well.” Those who endorse political authority argue not only that the state may do things that no individual would be permitted to do, but also that the state may do things that would be impermissible if engaged in by any other macro-level or emergent social institution.
Should we conclude that because macro-level social rules can’t be derived entirely by reference to micro-level individual behavior that, say, large religious organizations like the Church of Scientology have special entitlements and moral exemptions that apply to no other organization? Or sufficiently large corporations? Or clans? Or any other large-scale social institution you can envision? States, after all, are simply one of a number of different organizations used to coordinate social activity – so one would need additional arguments for why these special moral exemptions emerge only in the case of the state but not any nonstate social institution.
As Vincent Ostrom put it:
One can accept that all these forms of human association Ostrom describes may operate on rules not straightforwardly derivable from micro-level examples of individual behavior. I, for example, freely agree that micro-level behavior of individual adult interactions does not fully describe the responsibilities and obligations that are part and parcel to families. But that, in and of itself, does not touch the moral parity thesis. In order to dispute the moral parity thesis one would need to provide additional arguments for why one and only one form of social organization holds such impressive and weighty moral exemptions as are typically ascribed to the state. And the emergent nature of social morality, by itself, still leaves that gap unfilled.
READER COMMENTS
nobody.really
Aug 28 2024 at 5:39pm
How about arguments grounded in conflict resolution/reducing transaction costs? Here I use the word “state” to refer to the entity that makes the final call resolving conflicts. I don’t allege that this “state” renders especially good resolutions, but that deferring to this “state” generally provides better results than living in a constant state of rebellion–or even a constant state of negotiation. If I eventually reach a different conclusion about the consequentialist benefits of deferring to the state, I would remain free to rebel.
And yes, “spontaneous order” may well arise outside of any governmental entity. A culture of “honor killings” and the KKK may do much to maintain a certain kind of order outside any governmental entity. Some people capitulate to such social dynamics–effectively treating them as a state; some rebel–effectively rejecting their status as a state.
In short, ask not “What qualities does a state have such that we should defer to it?” Ask “What do we defer to?,” and afix the label “state” to that thing.
Kevin Corcoran
Aug 30 2024 at 10:33am
Sure, I’m definitely open to the idea that the state can help with conflict resolution and transaction costs, and I’m even open to the idea that the state may, in fact, be necessary to attain those effects. This is why I said I’m skeptical of the arguments Huemer made in the second half of his book, where he argues that stateless societies can achieve these ends as or more effectively. However, a “transaction cost disparity thesis” between state and non-state organizations is a very different question from a moral disparity thesis. It’s an important and interesting question to be sure, but still a different question.
To see what I mean, reconsider what Huemer says here:
You suggest that “deferring to this ‘state’ generally provides better results than living in a constant state of rebellion–or even a constant state of negotiation.” This may very well be true. But the moral parity thesis isn’t asking whether or not it is the case that states, in practice, produce this result better than private organizations could. The moral parity thesis is asking whether private organizations would be justified in engaging in the same behavior if the outcomes would be the same (or better). Maybe the results produced by states are sufficiently better to justify the existence of states – but that’s a separate question. This is why Huemer goes out of his way to point out that rejecting the idea of political authority does not commit one to being a political anarchist:
So your claim that the transaction cost reducing and conflict avoiding properties of the state ultimately provide better outcomes than private organizations could or would may very well be true, but that still leaves the moral parity thesis untouched.
Also, you write:
I tend not to take that kind of approach, because defining things that way simply assumes away the interesting questions, or at least makes it more difficult to identify and discuss them. To me, it seems like the question “should we defer to the state” is a substantive and interesting question worth pondering. But if we simply define the state as what we defer to, then the question of whether we ought to defer to states is defined away, and the statement “we should defer to states” is no longer a meaningful and substantive claim – it’s just an uninformative tautology.
Jim Glass
Aug 28 2024 at 6:33pm
Let’s turn the moral parity argument around: “If something is wrong for governments to do, then it’s wrong for individuals (or private organizations) to do as well.” For instance, if it is immoral for a state to go on a multi-generation murderous rampage against an extended family because generations ago somebody’s pig rooted through somebody else’s garden, then it must be immoral for individuals to do the same. Agreed? Surely! But who’s going to stop them?
That’s what the state has a moral right to do which individuals don’t, it’s all in that. It seems clear enough to me. Need I link yet again to the huge difference in death-by-violence rates in state versus non-state societies? Is that not an empirical measure of the “morality” of a society’s functioning?
That is the first purpose of the state. Absent that, Haiti today, where “waves of violence have displaced over 15,000 people in a matter of a week”. In all discussion, the rest must follow that.
None if this is obscure, micro or “emergent”, it’s all plenty macro, obvious in all the numbers, visible to the naked eye. So, let’s have the moral parity argument specifically address this basic reality. Failing that, I fear it has about as much usefulness as ye olde disputes about angels dancing on pinheads.
Kevin Corcoran
Aug 30 2024 at 10:43am
Hey Jim –
Yes, I’ve read that piece by Jared Diamond, which takes a similar line to that of Steven Pinker in The Better Angels of Our Nature, which I’ve also read. But, in a similar vein as what I said above to nobody.really, all the stuff you posted there is a separate question from what the moral parity thesis suggests.
Let’s grant that Diamond and Pinker are correct, and that states are uniquely capable of preventing society from falling into perpetual war and conflict. Nothing about accepting this claim works against the moral parity thesis.
Let’s suppose that God makes a rare public appearance, and he assures you, with His infinite wisdom, that Huemer’s case that private organizations could provide even better conflict resolution than states is in fact correct, and that if we transitioned to such a society, there would actually be less death and future conflict. Upon hearing that, would your reaction be “But it’s still wrong for those private organizations to do so, because if they did, they would be acting like states but they’re not the state, and only agents of the state should be allowed to do that!” This, roughly, is what rejecting the moral parity thesis would commit you to saying. Again, this is a separate question from the empirical arguments made by Pinker and Diamond about the actual efficacy of states and stateless societies at resolving conflicts. The moral parity thesis is simply asking if it was the case that private organizations/individuals could achieve these goals just as well (or better) than a state, would it nonetheless be morally wrong for them to do so, entirely by virtue of the fact that they are not the state?
Jim Glass
Sep 3 2024 at 5:24am
Hi Kevin.
I am very skeptical about applying “moral” analysis to such issues at all, but that will be for a separate comment. As doing so is the challenge, taking a consequentialist view, here is my answer to the moral parity question:
It is moral for the state to administer justice to a case such as where somebody’s pig destroys somebody’s crops, and immoral for individuals to do so. This is because the state applies impersonal justice, limiting the force (and violence) used, while individuals *necessarily* resort to personalized justice, leading systematically to massively larger amounts of force and violence applied. Vengeance and all its consequences. (See … you know the list.) So as per Huemer…
Done.
Done. Private justice applied is systematically excessive in amount, more violent, inefficient and costly to society as a whole. Therefore it is immoral. Even today. See Crypts v Bloods, the wronged spouse who puts 14 stab wounds in the other, vigilantism of all kinds, an endless list today and through all history.
(If there is no state then private justice isn’t immoral because there is no alternative. But the act of choosing more violent private justice over state justice is immoral both for wronged spouses wielding carving knives and would-be social engineers.)
Thus, “governments do have a right that is not identical to or derivable from the rights of individuals.” QED.
Well, if you select “perpetual war and conflict” as your preferred moral choice, I guess we are demonstrating that morality is relative.
God isn’t going to appear like that (and if He did we’d all definitely be talking about other things!) Thus we can with equal logic say: Suppose God appears and tells us that Marx and Lenin were right and must be followed … Huemer is all wrong, plus all academic philosophers are condemned to hell … and Jim Glass must be made King of the World. Would you be persuaded? An impossible premise makes all subsequent conclusions equally valid. I remember that much from my distant philosophy major.
Don’t be silly. If private individuals and organizations can in fact help reduce the amount of force needed in the justice system they are of course welcome to do so — as they have been doing here for a couple hundred years.
Name a real person who actually says that if private actors can effectively reduce violence in society they should not be allowed to do so because “they’re not the state, and only agents of the state should be allowed to do that!” Name any real person who’s ever said that.
That looks like a red herring to me. You are in the grip of a false dichotomy. Over-focus on “morality” does this to people all the time.
When I read “if something is wrong for individuals to do, then it’s wrong for governments to do as well”, I see a statement about the empirical real world in the present tense that is true or false. If you want to make it about some non-empirical alternate-reality world, then you can give any answer you want.
No, that’s an entirely different question from the one I answered above. You’ve moved from asking if there is moral parity (there isn’t) to arguing that there is. But ok, this one too.
Let’s simplify by assuming moral parity between a man and woman. Thus what one has the moral right to do, the other has equal moral right to do. So if a woman has the moral right to have a baby, a man does as well. Of course, empirically men can’t. (Just as empirically individuals can’t contain violence as a state can.) But if men ‘could achieve this goal just as well or better than women, would it nonetheless be morally wrong for them to do so, entirely because they are not women?’ Hey, I’ve seen this before.
See why I am so skeptical about applying “moral” analysis to these issues? It leads to a whole lot of mesmerizing analytical absurd nonsense (trolley problems and “repugnant conclusions“) which distract from, and too often confuse, meaningful consideration of serious real empirical objective problems.
Kevin Corcoran
Sep 3 2024 at 10:41am
Hey again Jim. Just a few quick thoughts –
In your first few paragraphs, you ultimately assert that “Private justice applied is systematically excessive in amount, more violent, inefficient and costly to society as a whole. Therefore it is immoral.” First, that claim is at least empirically controversial – many scholars have made compelling arguments to the contrary. (As mentioned, I’m not persuaded by those arguments, but they are at least prima facia plausible.) But again, granting that your assertion is correct, that doesn’t undercut what the moral parity thesis is asking. Hence the part from Huemer I also quoted above:
That is to say Huemer would agree with you that if “Private justice applied is systematically excessive in amount, more violent, inefficient and costly to society as a whole,” then that would justify the state. So you’re attempting to use a claim that’s fully accepted by proponents of the moral parity thesis, and explicitly integrated as part of that thesis, as a basis to refute the thesis. That’s not likely to strike many people as very compelling.
Thomas Christiano. I could name many more, but you just asked for one.
Well, yes, if I was being told something by an omniscient and omnibenevolent being, I would on that basis alone be persuaded that what I was being told was true. So if God did appear and told me that I was wrong and Marx was right, then that would change my mind about Marxism. (Granted, I don’t actually believe in any gods, but I’m fine with just answering a hypothetical as stated!) I mean, if an all-knowing and infallible being told you that you were wrong about something…why wouldn’t you change your mind? I can’t think of any reason.
Not quite. Inconsistent premises can entail any conclusion. That’s what philosophers call the “paradox of entailment.” All an impossible premise does for an argument is render that argument unsound.
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